This should be good for PM's!
Just saw a poll question on FoxNews regarding Obama's jobs speech today. I should say that I did not watch or read the speech.
The question was "What jobs idea do you agree with most?" Options are:
Payroll tax cuts for employers and employees
Tax credits for businesses to hire veterans
Tax credits to hire the long-term unemployed
Aid to states to prevent layoffs
Investment in infrastructure projects
Other
It seems to me that at some very fundamental level, this administration either does not understand the problem or does not care. (not that I think republicans do either) The first three options all reduce govt income without doing anything to create a job. The next two options spend money we do not have and if approved, will force the US to borrow or print more money. Option four does nothing to create a job. Option five might create a job but the money to pay the wage will most assuredly come from a govt funded contract employing union employees.
Of the five stated options, number five makes the most sense. We will still be just as broke but at least something tangible will result. $14.7 trillion of debt could have bought a serious amount of infrastructure!
Bill
Views: 258
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Buffalo on -
I tried to watch the speech live but like usual I didn't make it very far. The choice of venue and political spectacle with constant rounds of applause from mostly just one side of the aisle seems to me at least to show how politically motivated this exercise was. If this was truly just about the "plan", then why was it necessary to wait for Congress to reconvene and make this speech in the unusual setting of a joint session of Congress? Again, just my opinion, but it seemed to me to be a blatant example of the "politics" those with different views are so often criticized and attacked for. Both sides are motivated by and playing to political concerns, time they all dropped their "holier-than-thou" pretenses.
I did read the transcript of the speech in full. Most of what was proposed is not new. The total cost has been estimated at over $400B, which the President said will be paid for by additional cuts elsewhere, but nothing definite as of now for specifically what those cuts will look like. There always seems to be an element of "stay tuned for something more or better" in the future, and a lack of the clearly defined details that might actually encourage businesses to expand and invest now. These stimulus programs, however well intentioned, have not created self-sustaining long term growth.
I think the government will pass some kind of spending package. I also still think the Fed will do more QE soon. I think the odds are high we are currently back in recession and like many times before the numbers from the Commerce Dept have not yet caught up with reality. And the crisis in Europe looks like it will be very serious. Bottom line I think gold breaks $2200 an ounce this year, far above what I had predicted early this year, which amazes me even as bullish as I have been.
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Permalink Reply by Buffalo on
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This is a quote from the President's speech in which he said all of this would be "paid for".
And here's the other thing I want the American people to know: the American Jobs Act will not add to the deficit. It will be paid for. And here's how:
The agreement we passed in July will cut government spending by about $1 trillion over the next ten years. It also charges this Congress to come up with an additional $1.5 trillion in savings by Christmas. Tonight, I'm asking you to increase that amount so that it covers the full cost of the American Jobs Act. And a week from Monday, I'll be releasing a more ambitious deficit plan – a plan that will not only cover the cost of this jobs bill, but stabilize our debt in the long run.
My question is how credible is it to say the estimated $400+ billion costs are paid when we will clearly still be adding to the debt over the next ten years? Does a reduction in deficit spending in other areas to offset new costs here really constitute "paying" for it? If so, I'm going to talk to the Ford dealer and see if not buying a Chevy is acceptable as payment so they'll give me the car for free.
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Permalink Reply by george palmer on -
I HAVE TO BE WITH YOU ON THAT THE REPUBLICANS OR THE DEM ONLY CARE ABOUT GETTING BACK IN OFFICE THEY TAKE CARE OF THE BIG MONE PEOPLE US LITTLE PEOPLE ARE LIKE SHEEP THEY WANT OR COAT AND HOPE WE CAN GET OUT WITH ONLY THAT
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Permalink Reply by Lureuin on -
Imagine how many bridges could have been replaced if we had used all the money spent in Iraq on infastructure.
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Permalink Reply by Bruce Wiseley on -
Don't forgot all of the lives as well as the money. Who cares about money, which can be replaced. It's the deaths of the young men and women which is the real cost that's involved here! I would work for less if we would stop putting our young blood in harms way, especially when we are protecting the Heroin trade. When you have a president who has run nothing but his MOUTH, is a closet Muslim, hates the USA, is a bleeding heart liberal, and seems to be next best speaker since Hitler, the price of PM's doesn't quite seem too important. And Lureuin, don't you live "Down-Under"? I love what the PM of Australia said regarding the Muslims there; If you don't like it here, get the F... out!!!
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Permalink Reply by CaptainOverkill on -
While new spending is always good news for PM holders, here is the REAL bullish news: http://www.zerohedge.com/news/greece-denies-germany-begins-greek-de...
If Greece defaults, watch out. We'll probably have another crazy month of wild price swings like August!
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Permalink Reply by James on -
Just don't think about only American lives, there are millions of Iraqis died as well, many of them are children. Think about your house is bombed and your loved ones died in front of your eyes. Only life of Americans has value and others have none!!! Anyway, if someone has money and military, or in other words Super Power, they always show that to the world, there is nth NEW in it.
It's sad that there is no major demonstration against the war, from American citizens like they had in 70's for Civil Rights or others. And now economy is screwed up becoz of war, n people are realizing ohh, Iraq war was bad n shouldn't have happened!!! I support the Idea of Freedom of this world from cruel dictators like Saddam, Gaddafi etc, but freedom must have one and only one definition. What's USA or UN doing in Zimbabwe or Somalia where there are millions of people are dieing!! becoz they don't have OIL?
Bruce Wiseley said:Don't forgot all of the lives as well as the money. Who cares about money, which can be replaced. It's the deaths of the young men and women which is the real cost that's involved here! I would work for less if we would stop putting our young blood in harms way, especially when we are protecting the Heroin trade. When you have a president who has run nothing but his MOUTH, is a closet Muslim, hates the USA, is a bleeding heart liberal, and seems to be next best speaker since Hitler, the price of PM's doesn't quite seem too important. And Lureuin, don't you live "Down-Under"? I love what the PM of Australia said regarding the Muslims there; If you don't like it here, get the F... out!!!
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Permalink Reply by Bruce Wiseley on
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If you like to debate with me, please try using proper English, or at least Spell Check! All lives lost are important. For you to insinuate that I was only speaking about Americans only shows your closed mindedness. I imagine you live in one of the third world sh.. hole countrys that love to demean the USA, until you want our money or protection?
I do apologize for getting off point. There are so many factors that contribute to the rise and fall of PM prices, that it's getting harder to know how to react. Again, sorry everyone for the rant!
Shreekanta said:Just don't think about only American lives, there are millions of Iraqis died as well, many of them are children. Think about your house is bombed and your loved ones died in front of your eyes. Only life of Americans has value and others have none!!! Anyway, if someone has money and military, or in other words Super Power, they always show that to the world, there is nth NEW in it.
It's sad that there is no major demonstration against the war, from American citizens like they had in 70's for Civil Rights or others. And now economy is screwed up becoz of war, n people are realizing ohh, Iraq war was bad n shouldn't have happened!!! I support the Idea of Freedom of this world from cruel dictators like Saddam, Gaddafi etc, but freedom must have one and only one definition. What's USA or UN doing in Zimbabwe or Somalia where there are millions of people are dieing!! becoz they don't have OIL?
Bruce Wiseley said:Don't forgot all of the lives as well as the money. Who cares about money, which can be replaced. It's the deaths of the young men and women which is the real cost that's involved here! I would work for less if we would stop putting our young blood in harms way, especially when we are protecting the Heroin trade. When you have a president who has run nothing but his MOUTH, is a closet Muslim, hates the USA, is a bleeding heart liberal, and seems to be next best speaker since Hitler, the price of PM's doesn't quite seem too important. And Lureuin, don't you live "Down-Under"? I love what the PM of Australia said regarding the Muslims there; If you don't like it here, get the F... out!!!
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Permalink Reply by James on
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Mr. Bruse or whatever, English is not my first language and I know more than 4-5 other languages than you, u piece of shit, U only stay ur whole life in this place n know nth about other world. I know ur broadness of your mind, people like you creates Hate in the world which leads to wars. I am damn sure you are one of the mf red neck becoz of that whole American society is ashamed of.
FYI: I am an American citizen and I live here. And about demean of America, people like you DEMEAN this country. Talking about 3rd world country, don't worry if this credit trend (Trillion dollar debt) will go on, soon USA is gonna be a 3rd world country n we r gonna live in this country. Good Luck.
Bruce Wiseley said:If you like to debate with me, please try using proper English, or at least Spell Check! All lives lost are important. For you to insinuate that I was only speaking about Americans only shows your closed mindedness. I imagine you live in one of the third world sh.. hole countrys that love to demean the USA, until you want our money or protection?
I do apologize for getting off point. There are so many factors that contribute to the rise and fall of PM prices, that it's getting harder to know how to react. Again, sorry everyone for the rant!
Shreekanta said:Just don't think about only American lives, there are millions of Iraqis died as well, many of them are children. Think about your house is bombed and your loved ones died in front of your eyes. Only life of Americans has value and others have none!!! Anyway, if someone has money and military, or in other words Super Power, they always show that to the world, there is nth NEW in it.
It's sad that there is no major demonstration against the war, from American citizens like they had in 70's for Civil Rights or others. And now economy is screwed up becoz of war, n people are realizing ohh, Iraq war was bad n shouldn't have happened!!! I support the Idea of Freedom of this world from cruel dictators like Saddam, Gaddafi etc, but freedom must have one and only one definition. What's USA or UN doing in Zimbabwe or Somalia where there are millions of people are dieing!! becoz they don't have OIL?
Bruce Wiseley said:Don't forgot all of the lives as well as the money. Who cares about money, which can be replaced. It's the deaths of the young men and women which is the real cost that's involved here! I would work for less if we would stop putting our young blood in harms way, especially when we are protecting the Heroin trade. When you have a president who has run nothing but his MOUTH, is a closet Muslim, hates the USA, is a bleeding heart liberal, and seems to be next best speaker since Hitler, the price of PM's doesn't quite seem too important. And Lureuin, don't you live "Down-Under"? I love what the PM of Australia said regarding the Muslims there; If you don't like it here, get the F... out!!!
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Permalink Reply by Bruce Wiseley on
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Hey Buffalo, Just think, The Government spent almost a Trillion Dollars and that didn't work, so why not spend another $400 Billion, and we'll see how well that works? Oh my!
Buffalo said:This is a quote from the President's speech in which he said all of this would be "paid for".
And here's the other thing I want the American people to know: the American Jobs Act will not add to the deficit. It will be paid for. And here's how:
The agreement we passed in July will cut government spending by about $1 trillion over the next ten years. It also charges this Congress to come up with an additional $1.5 trillion in savings by Christmas. Tonight, I'm asking you to increase that amount so that it covers the full cost of the American Jobs Act. And a week from Monday, I'll be releasing a more ambitious deficit plan – a plan that will not only cover the cost of this jobs bill, but stabilize our debt in the long run.
My question is how credible is it to say the estimated $400+ billion costs are paid when we will clearly still be adding to the debt over the next ten years? Does a reduction in deficit spending in other areas to offset new costs here really constitute "paying" for it? If so, I'm going to talk to the Ford dealer and see if not buying a Chevy is acceptable as payment so they'll give me the car for free.
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Permalink Reply by Bruce Wiseley on
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If this Country is so terrible, then why the HELL did you come here to live? Either you are a hypocrite, or just an oportunist, taking advantage of all the hand-outs available to you here. Especially in California, where every illegal arrival is given the key to the city. What a moron, and a accurate example of the type of individuals who game the system, at the expense of others. Have a nice day, and when you do apply for citizenship, maybe then you might understand what it means to be an AMERICAN!? Probably not, you curry eating, slurpee serving, taxi driving, idiot who has no clue how to act. Freedom of speech doesn't forgive ignornance, it just allows it. Remember, "Life is hard, especially when your stupid". And, you can't fix stupid!
Shreekanta said:Mr. Bruse or whatever, English is not my first language and I know more than 4-5 other languages than you, u piece of shit, U only stay ur whole life in this place n know nth about other world. I know ur broadness of your mind, people like you creates Hate in the world which leads to wars. I am damn sure you are one of the mf red neck becoz of that whole American society is ashamed of.
FYI: I am an American citizen and I live here. And about demean of America, people like you DEMEAN this country. Talking about 3rd world country, don't worry if this credit trend (Trillion dollar debt) will go on, soon USA is gonna be a 3rd world country n we r gonna live in this country. Good Luck.
Bruce Wiseley said:If you like to debate with me, please try using proper English, or at least Spell Check! All lives lost are important. For you to insinuate that I was only speaking about Americans only shows your closed mindedness. I imagine you live in one of the third world sh.. hole countrys that love to demean the USA, until you want our money or protection?
I do apologize for getting off point. There are so many factors that contribute to the rise and fall of PM prices, that it's getting harder to know how to react. Again, sorry everyone for the rant!
Shreekanta said:Just don't think about only American lives, there are millions of Iraqis died as well, many of them are children. Think about your house is bombed and your loved ones died in front of your eyes. Only life of Americans has value and others have none!!! Anyway, if someone has money and military, or in other words Super Power, they always show that to the world, there is nth NEW in it.
It's sad that there is no major demonstration against the war, from American citizens like they had in 70's for Civil Rights or others. And now economy is screwed up becoz of war, n people are realizing ohh, Iraq war was bad n shouldn't have happened!!! I support the Idea of Freedom of this world from cruel dictators like Saddam, Gaddafi etc, but freedom must have one and only one definition. What's USA or UN doing in Zimbabwe or Somalia where there are millions of people are dieing!! becoz they don't have OIL?
Bruce Wiseley said:Don't forgot all of the lives as well as the money. Who cares about money, which can be replaced. It's the deaths of the young men and women which is the real cost that's involved here! I would work for less if we would stop putting our young blood in harms way, especially when we are protecting the Heroin trade. When you have a president who has run nothing but his MOUTH, is a closet Muslim, hates the USA, is a bleeding heart liberal, and seems to be next best speaker since Hitler, the price of PM's doesn't quite seem too important. And Lureuin, don't you live "Down-Under"? I love what the PM of Australia said regarding the Muslims there; If you don't like it here, get the F... out!!!
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Permalink Reply by Buffalo on
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This article gives a breakdown of the President's proposal:
Reuters: Key elements of Obama's $447 billion jobs plan
The private sector projections of the impacts of this plan vary a lot. Some of the most optimistic of the private sector analysis I have read projects that if this plan is enacted in full, it would add between 1-3% US economic growth in 2012 and lower the unemployment rate to approximately 8%.
Personally, I don't believe all of this plan will be enacted, and even if it is I doubt those results. More than $300 billion of the total is related to tax cuts and extension of unemployment insurance benefits. I have to question how many businesses will add workers simply because of a tax break that would typically offset only a small part of the costs to do so. The fundamental reason businesses hire workers is because business conditions justify the expense to do so and I think a $4000 tax credit won't change those fundamentals for most. More than $160 billion of the proposed extensions would only continue tax breaks and unemployment payments that are currently in effect and represent no new or increased stimulus. Whatever impact those dollars are having already exists.
The parts of the plan outlined in the article above directly related to jobs creation total approximately $150 billion. I think it is highly doubtful all of these proposals will be enacted. The projection for unemployment falling to 8% seems overly optimistic and also happens to be the same number we were given by some of the White House staff to result from the previous approx $800 billion stimulus. That obviously did not happen as shown in the chart below. It also remains to be seen what other spending will be cut to "pay for" whatever parts of this plan are enacted, and what the economic impacts of those cuts will be.
This chart is from an article by James Pethokoukis at Reuters. The blue lines represent the White House projections made in 2009. Current unemployment is actually above projections even without the nearly $800 billion in previous stimulus. This type of spending has consistently failed to achieve the promised results, so as I said I'm skeptical some of this will be passed or produce the claimed results if it is.
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