Share how your 25th Anniversary NGC/PCGS coins graded.
I just saw the grades for my five sets I set to NGC....they will be shipped today, so I should get them soon.
I was very, very surprised at how well they graded....especially the bullion coin, as I thought it would be the toughest to get a 70 and thus a complete 70 set. All the comments about loose coins and some completely out of their capsule had me concerned.
Here is how mine graded:
2011-W Uncirculated..........69,70,70,70,70
2011-S Uncirculated...........69,70,70,70,70
2011-P Reverse Proof.......69,70,70,70,70
2011-W Proof.....................69,70,70,70,70
2011- Bullion.......................70,70,70,70,70
I've noticed on ebay that auctions for 70 sets outnumber 69 sets for both NGC & PCGS by about a 3.5 to 1 ratio. I'm also really surprised that 99% of auctions are for either all 70's or all 69's. I expected to see a lot of mixed graded sets.
Good luck to everyone on your graded sets...from what I've seen, you will be pleased!!
Views: 1624
Replies to This Discussion
-
Permalink Reply by Ike on -
Hi all. Here is an early record of how PCGS grades for the first strike label & the regular label of the anniversary sets compare (MS/PF70). I know there are other factors that may be @ work here, but it seems from the raw data the first strikes are getting higher grades. Does anyone have an opinion as to why? Below is the early data & could change. I will post again in about 1 month.
25th Anniversary Sets @ grade 70
First strike label Regular label
Bullion (no mint mark) 55%+ 30%
S mint 53%+ 25%+
W mint 59%+ 46%+
W proof 55%+ 32%+
P Revp 54%+ 28%+
-
Permalink Reply by Lureuin on -
Wow Ike!!!!! Seems to me that PCGS can be paid for a better grade. Wonder what NGC's number are?
-
Permalink Reply by Ono on -
Not a confirmed fact, but from what I'm reading on other coin threads is NGC's has given out about 70% of the grade 70 and has graded 3x's the amount of sets PCGS has. Those PCGS percentages Ike posted look a bit suspicious to me, it could be the difference in the quantities submitted to each?
It's funny how the FS issue arises more frequent after a popular item come out and many people scramble to get their sets graded with the FS label and make a great profit at first. Then you have the people that are holding sealed boxes and can't decide what to do and when they finally decide to get them graded they obliviously want the FS label but complain about the cost because the market is lower at this point and can't receive profits they've previously seen others make. Not to mention the risk of not getting a 70('s) graded coin/set because to me it seems more 70's come earlier than later. Maybe it's a little nudge to us from TPG saying send in those coins... I could be wrong.
As for the FS designation, maybe all coin collectors can get together and sign a petition asking the TPG's to be done with this FS BS label and just add $5.00 per coin more to their grading fees and keep the little flag. (I do like the flag)
Just to be clear... my comments above are not directed towards anyone in this thread. Just my thoughts.
Lureuin said:Wow Ike!!!!! Seems to me that PCGS can be paid for a better grade. Wonder what NGC's number are?
-
Permalink Reply by 3rdStooge on -
I'm beginning to smell something that is not Professional. Hey you guys over at PCGS,!...... Is this professional? How do you reply to the numbers? The label is about $.0001 difference, but the numbers in grading don't compute!
If you refute this ............. how about an explanation?
-
Permalink Reply by Ike on
-
Hi Ono, there are fewer coins without the first strike label & it may skew the %s a little but not that much. Regardless of the amount in each group the %s should be about the same for both labels. Something else may affect these %s. I'm not sure what it would be other than what you stated about the earliest submissions. I will keep an eye on it & post again.
BTW I think anyone can check the info on PCGS website for themselves
-
Permalink Reply by True Money on -
What it looks like to me is that there is a little biased behavior favoring the additional funding coming from "FIRST STRIKE" labeling. However, when you look at the numbers, NGC is grading about 70% of the coins in perfect 70 while PCGS is grading 70s at 50% or less. PCGS recognizes the subtleties and differentiates 70s from 69s. This is why PCGS 70 coins bring larger premiums over NGC 70s.
-True Money!
-
Permalink Reply by True Money on
-
Ok Steve,
This is how the real grading service PCGS graded my shipment of 5 sets (without First Strike crap):
2011 uncirculated..............................69/69/69/69/69
2011-S uncirculated..........................69/69/69/69/70
2011-W burnished uncirculated.......68/70/70/70/70
2011-W proof (DCAM).......................69/69/69/69/70
2011-P reverse proof........................68/68/69/69/69
So, as you can see, PCGS is much more strict than NGC! What I can weigh against your grades is that I would have had the same results as you if I had submitted them to NGC as the 69s would have received 70s (with NGC) and the 68s would have received 69s (with NGC). These were eligible for "FIRST STRIKE" but I wanted the coins graded with uniform special "25th ANNIVERSARY SET" labels to create uniform sets. As you can see, the burnished coin prevents me from building a matched set in 69. However, I am pleased that 4 of the burnished coins received "TRUE" MS70 grades. This is why I don't trust coins in "FIRST STRIKE" and "EARLY RELEASES" slabs.
-True Money!
-
Permalink Reply by Clair Alan Hardesty on -
TM, just so you get the nomenclature right, the 2011-S is also struck on a burnished planchet (just like the 2011-W uncirculated) and the plain 2011 is a bullion, not an uncirculated strike. The burnished nomenclature is not really needed, we don't bother to relate the fact that the proof and reverse proof coins are struck on highly polished planchets. The coins themselves are not burnished anyway, as the strike remakes the entire surface. The uncirculated die are vapor sandblasted whereas the bullion die are not. The matte portions of both the proof and reverse proof die are laser etched, something that for me works fine on the reverse proof but does no favor to the standard proof as it has a significant effect on detail. The reverse proof does not suffer because only the flat areas are laser treated and there is no detail there to lose.
-
Permalink Reply by Ike on
-
Ike said:25th Anniversary Sets @ grade 70
First strike label Regular label
Bullion (no mint mark) 53.2% 33.4%
S mint 51.5% 26.3%
W mint 55.9% 37.2%
W proof 54.5% 35.1%
P Revp 53% 34%
As you can see the % spread of the grades for first strike and non first strike are not as wide with more coins being graded (one exception). I still think the spreads are wide enough for further investigation. Do you think the large dealers sent theirs earlier & received higher grades? I'm sure most if not all had the first strike label. Could they be favored over collectors? I also can't understand why they can't grade the coins & then ask if you want the first strike label. I was called by PCGS to see if I would like the first strike label before they processed my coins. Why? I had submitted my coins to be slabbed with the blue label. It seems to me they could grade the coins & then ask what type of label you would prefer. The slab & label should be the last step & would put a stop to anyone questioning the differences in the grades of first strike & non first strike. I noticed another discussion is also addressing this issue & I agree that no one knows the answers (except maybe PCGS-lol) but I think it's worth further investigation. I will keep an eye on the %ages & see if they even out (+-5%). That would end my concerns.
Another thing is if this was just random, you would think out of 5 coins in a set why is it that not one type was graded higher in the non first strike coin. All 5 (Bullion,S, W, W-proof & P) were not only graded higher with the first strike label but by a large %. Not sure what the odds would be but they would be high if something did not affect the grades. There have been several hundred blue label & several thousand first strike coins graded now. There may be an explanation but so far I have not heard it. I sure don't know
Ike said:Hi all. Here is an early record of how PCGS grades for the first strike label & the regular label of the anniversary sets compare (MS/PF70). I know there are other factors that may be @ work here, but it seems from the raw data the first strikes are getting higher grades. Does anyone have an opinion as to why? Below is the early data & could change. I will post again in about 1 month.
25th Anniversary Sets @ grade 70
First strike label Regular label
Bullion (no mint mark) 55%+ 30%
S mint 53%+ 25%+
W mint 59%+ 46%+
W proof 55%+ 32%+
P Revp 54%+ 28%+
-
Permalink Reply by Clair Alan Hardesty on
-
I fully expect the regular label numbers to approach those of the FS coins once enough non-FS coins have been graded. With only a few hundred non-FS coins graded so far, there is not enough data to draw any conclusions or establish any trends. We will need at least several thousand, preferably five or ten thousand, sets graded before it makes sense to compare the two camps.
The thing that does strike me is what I consider to be higher than expected percentages of 70s issued to the bullion and reverse proof coins. The W mint coins and, by inference, the new S mint coin (now known to be only the first year of production and not a unique coin) have were expected to see their percentages based on this year's coins prior to the set and also recent year's coins. The grades have been moving up in recent years (either because of quality improvements or relaxed grading). I now attribute the good showing of the reverse proof to the new production techniques, compared to the 2006 coin, after seeing the coin for myself and understanding how it was made. The bullion coin is a different matter. The high percentage of 70s for that coin leads me to believe that the bullion coins in the sets were produced specifically for inclusion in the sets and that they received special handling after being struck (but nothing out of the ordinary up through striking), that they were not put into tubes or monster boxes but rather individually placed in capsules as they came off the presses, which may have been operated at a slower than normal production pace. If the coins had been pulled from normal production, removed from monster boxes, I would not think that any where near so many would grade MS70.
-
Permalink Reply by True Money on
-
Somehow I just don't envision many more sets to be graded by PCGS, especially as non-first strike. PCGS has already graded over 10,000 sets with only 3.45% of the reverse proof to 4.14% of the bullion coins submitted for standard labeling without the FIRST STRIKE nonsense. This trend will also continue to be the same as roughly 96% of remaining unopened sets within unopened shipping boxes will also be submitted for FIRST STRIKES as well. Remember, neither FIRST STRIKES, nor 25TH ANNIVERSARY SET can be be attributed to the coins from opened sets except for 25TH ANNIVERSARY SET for the reverse proof and the uncirculated coin with the S mint mark.
-True Money!
- ‹ Previous
- 1
- 2
- 3
- 4
- Next ›
© 2012 Created by coinnetwork.
