Pure Politics- The place for those who can't restrain themselves from bringing politics into every coin thread.

Here is the place for those who want to battle it out without taking every thread into the gutter. Feel free to call politicians and appointed government idiots whatever names you want, make up history to suit your argument, restrain from telling the whole story if it doesn't reflect well on your position, and show the rest of the world just how messed up the USA is behind the scenes. Please refrain from cursing as that only shows your true level of education.

I'll start it off with the leading issues that seem to enter into every thread.

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Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Lureuin on August 31, 2009 at 2:41pm: Arguments:

Bush had a valid reason to start the war in Afghanistan (a 9/11 type attack was anticipated, but nothing was enacted to stop it) , but lied to the people to justify starting an unnecessary war in Iraq. The real reasons for the war in Iraq: It really bothered the new world order types when they heard that Bush 1 should have just gone ahead deeper into Iraq and took Sadam out while he had the chance. It really bothered Bush 2 that Sadam planned a failed hit on his dad when he visited Kuwait after the first war. Cheney saw the opportunity to make his old company (and friends) a lot of money not only for oil services in Iraq, but for newly started subsidiaries of Halliburton that could receive no-bid contracts to provide all of the needed private support that would be necessary. The selling of oil was supposed to pay for the Iraq war (never happened).

Clinton was a great president who balanced budgets and put everyone to work (everyone seems to forget that Congress was controlled by the Newt Reform Republicans that caused Clinton to have to move more to the middle). Clinton also proved himself to be a liar while in office.

Deficits- We have run deficits for everyone here's lifetime, nothing is new.
Healthcare- You have to really be asleep to not agree that at least the cost for Insurance coverage can't keep doubling every 3 or 4 years.
We are now a socialist country- Please point out to me what dramatic changes have taken place over the last year that now make people say "I want my country back", "Nazi's are in charge" and the other nonsense arguments that have nothing of substance backing them. I will call you a sheep if you make automaton statements.

Now for my take-

Republicans blew it when they regained control of congress by becoming greedy and corrupt.
Democrats like Pelosi and Reid would turn us into a completely broke socialist country if left unchecked.
Dick Cheney was the most evil holder of higher office this country has ever had.
Bush 2 was a dolt.
Both Clintons are power hungry liars.
Most of the real problems we face overseas are the end results of our CIA operations.
Republicans are the party of fear and the wealthy, but have a following of lower educated folks that think they really care about them.
Republicans are now the two-faced party, it's bad to do certain things unless I did them; then it's OK.
Democrats couldn't organize a trip to the bathroom, let alone run the country in a fiscally responsible way.
The Republican party has been high-jacked by extremist zealots.

OK, I think that's a good start- HAVE FUN!!!; ▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by Steve W on August 31, 2009 at 4:15pm: Wow! I could not have said it better myself! I went to one of those town Hall meetings in Reston last week to hear Howard Dean. Their was a whole crew of right wing fanatics who spent the meeting trying to disrupt and shout down the speaker and the majority of the audience. This seems to be their current modus operendi. I really wanted to hear Dean tell us why we need the reform. Finally the police took out the biggest malefactor who turned out to be Randall Terry the big anti-abortion loudmouth from Kansas. His entire contribution consisted of standing on a chair and heckling Governor Dean and other members of the audience.
This is what the right calls public discourse? When I see this same drivel on our blog, I just have to respond. Whatever happened to the Bill Buckley s and George Wills of the conservative movement? I never agreed with them, but they did have something to say that was based on facts and reason. I modified my views after listening to them.
The current crop of clowns are imbecilic at best.; ▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by True Money on August 31, 2009 at 4:30pm: Ok. Just so you know, I wasn't the first to start the political discussion.

If we are going to change for the better, we need to come together as one and do the changing. Ever wonder why Presidents don't endeavor to make this country excel? The last time we had a president step up to the plate for the challenge, he was assasinated! We need a true leader to step up to the plate! However, all who enter that most important office become just like those union members in Major League Baseball and never try to take chances and better themselves. Why? They have signed a contract good for a finite amount of time. Eight years in such an office is just not enough time to do certain things that a true leader endeavors to accomplish.

What do the outlaws say? That's right. "Laws were made to be broken." Certain laws in this country need to be abolished.

-True Money!; ▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by Steve W on August 31, 2009 at 5:03pm: I think so! Have you gone to any of the meetings in MD?

Lureuin said:
Did I already know you were in the DC area?; ▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by Steve W on August 31, 2009 at 5:15pm: No, we were battling before you came along. I think it is a good thing to air our differences if the aim is to test ideas in the market place of thought. I am very concerned by current tactics from the right that are based on intimidation and disrespect. This is what was used by the SA in Germany in the 1930s. Lots of beefy, red faced men shouting down a political speaker and scuffling with their opponents. Their signs had Hitler mustaches on Obama. What is that? My wife was truly frightened by this Terry character and some of his supporters who threatened to bring their guns to the next meeting. Remember that one of Terry's followers gunned down a doctor a few months ago because he performs legal, (legal only if it is necessary to save the mother's life) late term abortions. Keep talking TM you are a worthy debater.

True Money said:
Ok. Just so you know, I wasn't the first to start the political discussion.
If we are going to change for the better, we need to come together as one and do the changing. Ever wonder why Presidents don't endeavor to make this country excel? The last time we had a president step up to the plate for the challenge, he was assasinated! We need a true leader to step up to the plate! However, all who enter that most important office become just like those union members in Major League Baseball and never try to take chances and better themselves. Why? They have signed a contract good for a finite amount of time. Eight years in such an office is just not enough time to do certain things that a true leader endeavors to accomplish. What do the outlaws say? That's right. "Laws were made to be broken." Certain laws in this country need to be abolished.
-True Money!; ▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by Steve W on August 31, 2009 at 5:24pm: Me too! I even dream about finding Civil War gold along the C&O canal towpath. I will bet you that some was hidden there by Confederate Raiders. They used to call this area the Mosby Republic. Also, did you know that General William Braddock hid an entire British pay chest somewhere in Pennsylvania. It had mostly gold coins.

Zyll said:
Oh...and I thought up another one...
"I love GOOOOOOOOOOLD!!! The look of it, the taste of it! The smell of it, the texture. I love Gold so much that I even..." Well I'll keep this a kid-friendly show.; ▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by Gary on August 31, 2009 at 6:05pm: This Coin Network is going in the gutter....................Coin2Network.....coming soon!!!; ▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by Lureuin on August 31, 2009 at 7:37pm: Gary- This IS the politics thread. If politics disgusts you, don't read this thread.

Coin Network is just fine. Good Luck starting #2.

Money- My money was not on you winning the Loser title.; ▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by Gary on August 31, 2009 at 8:39pm: Thanks

Lureuin said:
Gary- This IS the politics thread. If politics disgusts you, don't read this thread.

Coin Network is just fine. Good Luck starting #2.

Money- My money was not on you winning the Loser title.; ▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by Vince on August 31, 2009 at 8:51pm: Zyll - Loved the chant!

Lureuin - Awesome points that you presented. Couldn't have said them better myself!

Although I'm a registered Democrat in Illinois, I have crossed party lines on several occasions and even voted for independents because they were the better candidates. Here in Chicago, we have voters (and ghost voters) who keep voting for the same politicians (mainly Democrats) for reasons that are beyond me. They have been exposed as corrupt and a bunch of ninnies but still win elections. I swear Al Capone is still running Chicago.; ▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by Ike on September 18, 2009 at 2:57am: I have been following the politics on a discussion that is now closed, but I have refrained from commenting. I still think I am making a mistake, but here are my 2 cents worth. I think Steve W is right on most issues & I can also see that most of you don't or @ least the ones that do, don't express their views. Some seem to have severe biases against others for their ethnicity, views, status etc. I am not sure you understand the harm that can do to another person, especially a young child. My younger sister still suffers the discrimination she experienced as a child (now 65). I over came it as did my brothers. I am Scottish, so all I had to do was take advantage of the help offered by the government, get a degree & put put on a suit. I then looked like everyone else & the discrimination ended. I can't imagine what it would be like for someone such as a educated, bright & effluent black (or any black for that matter) & never being able to escape the ignorant people that still think less of a that person because of their color .
If it were not for the government investment in me (using your hard earned tax dollars) , I might still be a migrant worker. My day started @ 4 AM & lasted till about 6-8 PM. I worked with the temperature in excess of 100 degrees, so none of you can tell me about hard work getting you anywhere. My dad did it until the day he died. I still suffer physical pain yet today. I started work when I was in the second grade (Thank God for the child labor laws of today-would a pure capitalist system ended child labor?). I worked in the potato & cotton fields, grapes, beans etc. The government & society as a whole has been returned many times over their original investment in me & many like me. All of you may be paying less in taxes now because of the "socialist" programs that invested in people like me. We are or were (I am now retired) productive Americans that have paid a ton of taxes & I have never griped about it, even though I strongly opposed the war in Iraq. I also make donation's to help the less fortunate members of our society.
I am not wealthy, but money is not one of my big worries. I have a hundred stories that might explain why I have the beliefs & views I do, but will not bore you. As Steve has stated "your values represent the sum of your education and life experiences" & I think it even goes further, but will not expand on that. I could also comment on what I think are untrue statements that were made, but for what purpose?
All I can say is to try and get different points of view-- read, watch and listen. Make it a point to find to shows, articles & people that have a different point of view than yours. I make it a point to watch Fox @ least twice a week to get a different point of view. Sometimes I even agree with them---not often---lol. I know it would be hard for some of you to do, but once a month try & watch CNBC for a different point of view; ▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by Lureuin on September 18, 2009 at 8:04am: Ike- Thanks for your input. I closed that discussion because the original topic was dated. I was hoping someone with a good mind would figure out to use this thread, and it worked.

Now we can only hope that anyone who wants to discuss politics will use this thread instead of making new discussions, that have nothing to do with coin collecting, in the coin forums. What would be nice is if anyone feels the need to go political in a normal discussion, they state that they are going to talk politics and are moving over here. I, as much as some others, have no problem listening and responding to different points of view. I just wish we could do it here in this thread, rather than stinking up all the discussions. If everyone used this thread, it would be the most active, thats for sure.

I also watch all of the different news channels to get a different perspective on the issues. I watch CNN, MSNBC and Fox to gain insight into those points of view. MSNBC obviously leans left, CNN reports the news, and Fox leans very far right. I don't consider Beck and Hannity to be news, they are Variety Shows. You can't make up things and still be considered to be reporting news. When comparing MSNBC Varity Shows, Hardball and Countdown, to Fox shows; I at least have to admit the MSNBC shows don't make things up.

I find myself agreeing with everyone at one point or another; yes even Frank, lol, whom I still consider a friend no matter what his feelings. I also find myself disagreeing with the same people on other issues. The one thing I try not to do is lower myself by showing blatant contempt for anyone.

Also, something I have recently noticed is that some folks are removing their political posts after they have been discredited. I admit to removing a couple of mine last night from the closed discussion, in an attempt to keep peace, after I noticed the person I responded to removed theirs.; ▶ Reply to This