Need help, can you grade these Lincolns?

I am posting photos of three Lincoln cents I have. Can you give me an idea of what the MS grade might be on these. I think I have the photos large enough to catch marks and blemishes. First is a 1931-S, second a 1927-S, third a 1909-SVDB.

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Permalink Reply by Lureuin on March 14, 2010 at 5:08pm

31 S- AU53/55
27 S- AU50/53
09 S VDB- VF20/25

I may be a little high, but didn't want to be the messenger.
I cheated: http://www.pcgs.com/Photograde/#/Lincoln/Grades

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Permalink Reply by Lureuin on March 14, 2010 at 5:52pm

Don't be discouraged though. According to a few folks on here; if you send them to NGC they'll all come back as MS70PL with a special label.

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Permalink Reply by Buffalo Hunter on March 14, 2010 at 8:15pm

Well lets see
32-S MS-60
27-S VF-45
1909-S,VDB Weak strike VF-35
all IMHO.

BUFFALO HUNTER

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Permalink Reply by True Money on March 15, 2010 at 1:35am

Ok, don't get ahead of yourself Lureuin!

This is all I can determine from the photos.

1931-S - AU58 to MS60 Brown
1927-S - MS60 RB
1909-S-VDB - NOT GENUINE! The date is a dead giveaway! The 1 has a dentical, the 9's are incorrect, and the 0 is far too big. Overall, the date is much too bold for this coin to simply be a late die state, further signifying that the date has been altered. The VDB also appears to be too big!

I hope you did not get burned on this one!

-True Money!

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Permalink Reply by True Money on March 15, 2010 at 2:12am

This is a link to PCGS's Coinfacts that shows a genuine 1909-S VDB. I hope I have not offended you by concluding that your 1931-S VDB is not genuine.

http://www.pcgscoinfacts.com/Tour.aspx?page=16

-True Money!

True Money said:

Ok, don't get ahead of yourself Lureuin!
This is all I can determine from the photos.
1931-S - AU58 to MS60 Brown
1927-S - MS60 RB
1909-S-VDB - NOT GENUINE! The date is a dead giveaway! The 1 has a dentical, the 9's are incorrect, and the 0 is far too big. Overall, the date is much too bold for this coin to simply be a late die state, further signifying that the date has been altered. The VDB also appears to be too big!

I hope you did not get burned on this one!

-True Money!

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Permalink Reply by True Money on March 15, 2010 at 2:21am

Here is a better examination by PCGS that compares the authentic coin with counterfeits.

http://www.pcgs.com/articles/article_view.chtml?artid=6062&univ...

-True Money!

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Permalink Reply by Lureuin on March 15, 2010 at 8:14am

Very nice catch Money; you are GOOD!!! It's the 1 that is the obvious give away. I was looking at the forest, not the trees. I did think it odd the IGE would be asking for help grading a coin. I should've known something was up.

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Permalink Reply by rrantique on March 15, 2010 at 10:15am

Good one Earl.

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Permalink Reply by Buffalo on March 15, 2010 at 10:39am

Actually fellas, don't be mad at IGE. He is a friend of mine who put these photos up at my request just as a follow up to the counterfeit posts I made. The 1909 is one of several replica coins obtained from a seller in China. The listing photos all showed coins marked replica. The coins that were received were unmarked. I don't know all the details (I wasn't involved in buying them, etc) on that but I understand the seller has been banned from the site where he was selling them. But it sounds like he was responsible for hundreds if not thousands of coins like this coiming into the US on a weekly basis. These coins are going somewhere and a lot of people are getting scammed. And he was just one of many.

The 1931-S photos have been doctored to make the coin look better than it really is. The color is off for one thing. Look close at the photos and you can see something looks at least a little questionable.

IGE is by far one of the most knowledgeable collectors I know, which is why I asked him to post these when I saw his photos of the 1909. I figured his reputation would tend to make people assume the coins had to be good. The whole point is just to keep your eyes open and not assume something. Like Lureuin said, look at the trees, not just the forest (or where the forest is) because there are fakes being sold every day by good honest people who don't know the coins are bad.

Good job T.M. You spotted it, said so, and posted links to help others learn. Way to go! And thanks again to IGE!

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Permalink Reply by IndianGoldEagle on March 15, 2010 at 1:04pm

Good catch guys. I tried this test on a couple other sites with pretty much the same results. People tend to focus on color and strike (trees), missing the obvious incorrect details (a dieing forest) of a counterfeit coin. Always assume a coin is bad until you prove to yourself that it is good. The on-line auction sites are just loaded with bad coins. Many are counterfeit, doctored or with problems. Decent coins go for good money and the those that are a bargain usually are for a reason.

A friend of mine picked up a couple counterfeits for me off of e--y. They came from a dealer in China and his coin photos in the listings all showed "copy" stamped on them. All coins received from this seller were unmarked. They are selling these for a price that includes postage. The price of that S-VDB was 1.50, far less than it even cost to ship it. The counterfeiters are using the auction sites to line up repeat buyers that will keep their business going. You can buy any date or any type coin you want, even the most common dates. We can only imagine how many unmarked counterfeits are flowing into this country right now. This will be a problem that will be around for the rest of our lives. I no longer buy Morgan/Peace dollar lots without closely checking every coin, many dealers do not take the time and these junk coins are going to slip through.

The 1931-S Lincoln shown above is a genuine coin, AU-55. I doctored the photo to get a nice red color. This is also something to watch out for when buying on-line as many times sellers will doctor photos to make the coin look better than it is. The 1927-S is also genuine and is Mint State (original MS-60 Red-Brown). The black stripe on reverse was most likely caused by sitting against a rubber band or something else in a drawer for a number of years. I put that one in there to throw you guys off as most people would focus on that coin and not the bad one. Below is a photo of the actual 31-S color.

Enjoy your coins and stay vigilant when buying, never assume a coin is real unless you convince yourself everything checks out.